Will Worshipping Calvinists Will Not Be Saved By _DECIDING_ They Must Be One Of The Elect!

On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:23:20 -0800 (PST),
in article
<9b83e5d7-1896-438d-8880-7eb1461a842e@b38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Jon Volkoff <jvolkoff@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:40:37 -0600, Randy ® <pulpitf...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> >> > this glorifies God... will worshipers have no need to glorify God
>> >> >being devoid of anything in them that would bring true praise in true
>> >> >worship from true hearts.
>> >>
>> >> Which is why Calvinists who believe in limited atonement won't
>> >> be saved, just because they decided they were one of the
>> >> elect.
>> >
>> >This is nonsensical, as belief in limited atonement -- for limited
>> >atonement is the gospel -- is itself proof of being one of the elect.
>> >(Mark 16:15,16)
>> >
>> >Of course, this isn't the first time you've asked us to believe
>> >something nonsensical, now is it?
>>
>> On the contrary. You're the one asking people to believe self
>> contradictory nonsense. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing
>> by the word of God (Rom. 10:17). The Bible has to say Christ
>> died for you before you can believe it, and you have to
>> believe it before you can know you are elect.
>
>It is passing strange that, according to you, the proposition

[Let's see you respond to every line of this post, without
resorting to deleting it, then making dogmatic assertions]

>"If you believe that Christ died for the elect (alone), it is proof
>that Christ died for you"

>is self-contradictory nonsense,

Which it is, and you have deleted and failed to respond to the
evidence which I believe clearly supports that conclusion:

1) Saving faith is based on Christ's death and resurrection
for our sins (1 Cor. 15:3-4), and comes by hearing the word of
God (Rom. 10:17). That means that God uses Scripture that
says Christ died for you, to impart saving faith that Christ
died for your sins.

2) Calvinists insist that no matter what the Bible says (e.g.
"Christ died for sinners", "all men, especially them that
believe", "not only our sins, but also the sins of the whole
world", "every man", even the false teachers who "deny the
Lord who bought them", etc.), it must be interpreted to mean
that Christ did not die for you unless you are one of the
elect.

3) Now then, since faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the
word of God, what verse of Scripture convinced the Calvinist
that Christ died for him? Answer? Since they claim that no
matter what the Bible says, it must mean Christ did not die
for them, unless they are one of the elect, they can't believe
_ANY_ verse of Scripture says Christ died for them, unless
they first _decide_ they are one of the elect!

You can't say, "Everything the Bible says means Christ did not
die for me unless I am one of the elect, then say, "I believe
the Bible says Christ died for me", unless you first, for no
reason whatsoever, _decide_ you were one of the elect it says
He died for!

Complete nonsense. That's putting the cart before the ox, and
faith in one's own decision they must be one of the elect,
before faith in Christ's death and resurrection.

>while the proposition

>"Christ died to save those He knew would never be saved"
>
>somehow is not.

Like all Calvinists, you object to that because you place what
seems reasonable to you, above what revelation says on the
subject.

The penalty for all sin, and every sin is _death_. Christ
_died_. Therefore, the penalty for all sin has been paid.
There is no partial death, or finite death. Christ died,
therefore, He paid the penalty for _all_ sin, period.

The Bible says in John 12:47ff., that the gospel, not Christ,
will judge those who reject His words, and believe not,
because He came not to judge the world, but to save it. That
means the world Christ came to save, includes those who reject
and believe not His word! It just can't be any plainer or
more irrefutable than that.

Peter says the false teachers "deny the Lord who bought them"
(2 Peter 2:1). Now, what are you going to do about that? You
have to either agree with the false teachers, and deny that
the Lord bought them, OR claim the false teachers who deny the
Lord who bought them, and who bring on themselves "swift
destruction", were really somehow, elect believers! Complete
nonsense!

Again and again, the Calvinist is forced to either insist the
Bible either means that Christ died only for the elect, or
that it wasn't really talking about Christ paying the penalty
for these people's sins. All on the basis that it doesn't
seem reasonable to the Calvinist that such could be the case,
and in perfect contradiction to what the text actually says.

The Bible says God is one, the Bible says God is three. You
don't understand that, you just accept it by faith, because
that's what the Bible says.

In the same way, the Bible says Christ loved, came to save,
and died for the whole world, including those who ultimately
reject and believe not His word (John 12:47ff.), and including
the false teachers who deny the Lord who bought them (2 Peter
2:1), _AND_ it says "Jacob have I hated". _Both_ statements
are true, whether it seems reasonable to you or not.

And in that regard, it might be added that nothing fattens the
lost for the slaughter like rejecting a free offer of
salvation! Make no mistake. The Bible says it is "sin" not
to believe on Christ for Salvation!

Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of
sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he
that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The non-elect, who fail to believe in Christ, can't be judged
as guilty of rejecting an offer of salvation, if it weren't
really being offered to them in the first place, else God
would be unjustly convicting them for failing to believe a
lie!

The Calvinist will then argue that it doesn't seem reasonable
to him that Christ can die to pay for all men's sins,
including the sin of unbelief, then that person can go to
hell. But Scripture answers where Calvinistic reasoning fails
to tread, and exposes a whole series of problems arises from
their reasoning.

It was not enough, even for the elect, that the Passover Lamb
be slain. No, the blood _had_ to be applied to the doorpost
of the house, before the angel of death would pass over that
house!

The elect are not _born_ saved. The Bible says, even for the
elect, "you must be born again"! That means the elect are
born lost, even though the penalty for all their sins,
including the sin of unbelief, were paid for before they were
even born! Why then do they need to have saving faith at all,
and why are they not just born saved, by virtue of the fact
Christ died for them?

Answer? Because the value of the atonement _must_ be applied
to the doorpost of a person's soul, by faith, before it
becomes effective for that individual. Otherwise, the elect
would just have been born saved, would not need to be born
again, and wouldn't even have to trust Christ at all.

The non-elect then, perish not because Christ's death failed
to pay the penalty for all sins, including their sin of
unbelief, but because the value of His atonement was never
applied to their account through faith!

>What some people will do to avoid the obvious truth...

A synopsis from the auto-biography of a Calvinist. You place
faith in your own reasoning above what revelation says, and
faith in your own decision to be one of the elect, above faith
in Christ's death and resurrection.

--
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5